Managing the Mental Load: A Better Approach to Balance at Home with Valerie Recore

Full Episode Page: Managing the Mental Load: A Better Approach to Balance at Home with Valerie Recore

Summary : In this episode of Life Intended, host Kelly Berry welcomes Valerie Recore, a productivity specialist and Certified Fair Play Method Facilitator. Valerie helps overwhelmed moms reduce their mental load, balance the division of labor at home, and live more fulfilling lives. With her background in mental health and time management, Valerie provides actionable strategies for overcoming maternal frustration, improving partner dynamics, and achieving a sense of accomplishment at the end of the day. This episode offers insightful solutions for those struggling with the invisible burdens of motherhood and partner communication.

Takeaways:

• Understand the "mental load" and how it creates stress in relationships.
• Learn the Fair Play Method to share household tasks equitably.
• Gain control over time and reduce feelings of overwhelm.
• Identify key steps to improve communication and partner collaboration.

Links:

• Stride Productivity
• Valerie on Instagram
• Valerie on Facebook
• Valerie on LinkedIn

This episode is supported by Bon Charge - Use code LIFEINTENDED to save 15%!

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Valerie Recore and the Topic
03:29 Challenges Faced by Moms in Managing Time and Tasks
10:28 The Division of Labor and the Mental Load
15:22 Signs of an Unbalanced Division of Labor
19:14 Introducing the Fair Play Method to Your Partner
22:50 Implementing the Fair Play Method for a Balanced Life
34:04 Aligning Values and Resisting Societal Pressures
38:05 Defining the Standard of Care
43:44 Beyond Chores: Managing Relationships and Creating Magic
47:35 Resources and Support

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More About Kelly Berry

Kelly is a Coach, holds an MBA and is the VP of Operations at Fitness Revolution. She has a rich background in strategic planning and business management is a devoted community volunteer and an avid adventurer. Kelly believes in living life to the fullest—whether it’s running an ultramarathon, running her businesses, or spending quality time with her husband Nick Berry and daughter Vivienne. Her life is a testament to the power of resilience and intention.

Life Intended is published in partnership with FCG.

Transcript

Valerie Recore (00:00)

When you as a mom start to feel resentful and frustrated, you're wondering why your partner doesn't see all of this stuff, understand why you're so frustrated or angry. Like when you snip at your husband or you snip at your kids and he's like, what are you so mad about? It is most likely because you are exhausted and resentful and angry that you were doing everything. And it's coming out in this other way. And maybe you're feeling like you just don't understand why your husband doesn't notice. Why does my partner not notice I'm doing all of these things?

Kelly Berry (00:32)

Hi friends, you're listening to Life Intended, a podcast that explores what it means to be true to yourself and live an authentic and purposeful life. I'm your host Kelly Berry, and each episode of Life Intended explores my guests' version of personal growth, self -discovery, and the pursuit of becoming the best version of themselves so that you can take what you need and incorporate it into your life so that you can live with more intention and authenticity. Whether you're seeking to develop your leadership skills, overcome challenges, or simply live a more fulfilling life, you will find guidance, motivation, and practical strategies to help you navigate your unique journey. Today, I have Valerie Recore with me on the podcast talking about a topic that I think is so relevant to so many of us. And I think it's just going to be incredibly interesting and a great conversation. Valerie is a productivity and time management specialist and a certified Fair Play method facilitator. She helps moms gain a sense of control, spend more time with their families, and end their days feeling accomplished. With a background in mental health and corporate training, she's ready to guide you toward a better relationship with time. If you're ready to start feeling more peace and more accomplishment at the end of the day, she is here to help. Well, I don't know anyone who doesn't wanna feel more peaceful and more accomplished, so I'm really excited for today's conversation. Welcome to the podcast, Valerie.

Valerie Recore (02:00)

Thank you, I am happy to be here.

Kelly Berry (02:02)

So tell us a little bit more about how you got into this type of work.

Valerie Recore (02:08)

Yeah, so I love reading time management books. Laura Vanderkam and Julie Morgenstern happen to be two of my favorites because they're just very based in reality and I don't know why I love reading them. I just do. And then also coupled with years of listening to my friends talk about how busy they were, right? That's always the answer. We seem to get when you ask somebody, somebody asks how you're doing or you ask somebody their response is usually just I'm busy. But are we busy doing the things that we want to be doing? Or do we just feel like we were busy as a badge of honor? Like that's just how we should be busy. We should just be running nonstop. and that, that answer never really sat right with me. Whenever I had those conversations with friends, I felt like, do we want to be this busy? Does this feel right? Are we again, just that like badge of honor and I really just wanted to help moms feel more in control of their time and help moms really understand kind of how they're spending their time. I think as women we are conditioned to do all the things by ourselves. We don't get to ask, we're not supposed to ask for help. We're told we're just better at all of this stuff at multitasking, at taking care of the house, at raising kids.

And we're not, we've just been conditioned to believe that and we've had more practice. So it feels truly like we are. And so I really just wanted to create a space for moms to understand that they don't have to be the ones doing everything themselves and that they can get their partners on board with all of this and a space to really evaluate what is societal conditioning versus what and how we want to truly be spending our lives. so that is how we, that's how I got here.

Kelly Berry (03:58)

yeah. how do you, what does it look like when you start working with somebody? I guess, you know, tell us about like, what are the challenges that they're having and how do you turn those challenges into like practical steps that they can take?

Valerie Recore (04:03)

Mm Yeah. So the challenges are really that mom is feeling overwhelmed. There's way too much to do. whether they work inside or outside the home, all moms are working and, there's just in general way too much for a person to do by themselves in any given day. And

But we feel like we have to be doing it and we need to be getting all this stuff done. We need to be throwing elaborate birthday parties and signing our kids up and keeping them busy all of the time with different activities. Our house needs to be clean. We need to be putting homemade meals on the dinner, on the table every night, all of this stuff. And so we feel all of this stuff. And so the starting point is understanding that it is not on us to do all the things by ourself. And then really,

understanding how do we get our partner and how do we get our kids involved in the conversation around what we want our life to look like and who is doing what. So I know we'll get into the Fair Play method a little bit down the road. So to start with, we really just look at how are we spending our time? what are we prioritizing every day? And does this fit into how we want to be spending our time and what our priorities really are?

Or are we just feeling like we have to just get through the day and we don't have time to take a step back and evaluate, we just need to get dinner on the table? how can we slowly take some steps towards you not feeling quite so rushed or quite so overwhelmed because you know it's important to you and you have your family involved in all of this stuff as well. So the mental load doesn't fall solely on you.

And then we can get you to where your life feels less overwhelming and resentful and you are truly living a life you don't want to run away from.

Kelly Berry (06:03)

Yeah, I saw that phrase on your website and that has come up with another guest that I had just talking about health really. And, you know, it is a real thing for women slash moms, especially around, you know, like early forties feel like they just want to run away. And so I love that you, you know, that's kind of your phrase, like to build a life that you don't want to run away from. I think a lot of these

Valerie Recore (06:06)

Ha ha ha.

Kelly Berry (06:31)

things that we tell our stories that we tell ourselves or beliefs that we hold about what our responsibilities are. You know, it can feel the next thing I want to do is just escape this. Like I just want to run away. I want to hide. I want no one to find me. But you also feel at the same time that that's like the last thing you want to do. Like I don't want to be away from my family or my kids. So it's just very confusing, I'll say. So

going to talk about the division of labor. So what is that phrase and what does it mean to you work with women or the Fair Play method? Talk a little bit about what that actually is.

Valerie Recore (07:11)

Yeah. So let me take it back just a step to the mental load and then get into the division. So the mental load it's like having 75 internet tabs open on your brain. You were just thinking of all of these things that need to happen. So as we're recording this, is let's say the beginning of the school year. My kids have been in school for a few weeks. Maybe some started recently. And there's a lot that goes into

Kelly Berry (07:16)

Yeah.

Valerie Recore (07:39)

getting kids ready for school, right? Do they need physicals? When is registration? Do I have to do that in person? Can I do it online? What documents do I need for registration? What do we need new school? Do we need new clothes? Do the kids need new shoes? Do they need new, you know, do your kids want a new first day of school outfit? What about backpacks and lunchboxes and all of this stuff? School supplies. And there's a lot that goes into that.

And you might, people, your family might not be thinking about it until it's, you know, the day before, and then we're panicking because it's, need all of the stuff. But usually it's mom who's going to remember all these things that need to happen and then take care of them. And you know, how are we doing that? And that's, this is a time of year I struggle with the clothes, right? It's the, my oldest always needs a new wardrobe every six months. And so, and I dread the day that her younger sister doesn't want her hand me down because then I'm taking two kids shopping for a whole new wardrobe every six months.

And so it's really, there's a lot that goes into that. Like where's the school supply list? Is it buried in an email? Is it on the school's website? Is it on Facebook? Is it, where can I track that down? And then we have to go find all of this stuff. And do we, and that's stressful in and of itself. Are we going in person? This year I did target pickup and it was delightful because then I didn't have to go wander down the aisles and look for what I needed.

Kelly Berry (08:44)

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (09:07)

But there's a lot that goes into that and it's exhausting and it's a lot of it is mental. And so we don't, people don't see it. It's like, how does the ketchup end up in the fridge? Somebody remembered that we need, noticed that we need ketchup, remembered what type of ketchup the family likes. Maybe it's a couple of different versions and then went and bought that ketchup. doesn't just magically appear in the kitchen. There's a lot behind that.

So getting into the division of labor, is who is doing what around the house? So much of it is invisible. And so somebody might take credit for, you know, well, hey, I just put the, open the ketchup and put it in the fridge and now we have ketchup versus the like 12 steps it took to get there. Or, hey, I just took the trash out. Like, okay, but I reminded you.

that it was trash day and I told you where the trash bags were and I reminded you to go check all of the bathrooms to empty all of the trash throughout the house. You just took the trash out. You did the physical part of it, the execution piece of it. And that mental piece, the behind the scenes, all that invisible work is really the exhausting piece of it. The signing your kids up for activities. There's so, like, yes, it's one thing to show up to a Saturday soccer game.

but who has done the registration and marked the calendar with all of the games and all of the practices and made sure the uniform is clean and made sure they have the cleats that fit and all of those steps that get the kid to the game on Saturday. And so there's a lot behind that. And then the division labor of labor gets into who is doing what and why and kind of how all of that is happening.

Kelly Berry (10:45)

Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (10:53)

Yeah.

Kelly Berry (10:54)

Okay, yeah, so and you know, you're talking about this and I'm listening and you know, I have a toddler and so there are all the things, you know, anytime you leave the house and I have one toddler and I know people who have, you know, like three and four kids that are all, you know, pretty young and but every time you go to leave the house, you have to do this like mental inventory, like what's in the diaper bag? What needs to be replaced? How long are we gonna be gone? How many snacks do we have?

Are we gonna be someplace where she can have a meal or there's so many things. And I think, talking and I'm just agreeing with you the whole way. It's like with school, it's like, what do you get in an email versus on the app versus your teacher told you versus you gotta pick it up from the folder in class. It's just, there's a lot and it's just always like talking about these open tabs.

Valerie Recore (11:42)

Mm

Kelly Berry (11:49)

the stress of not wanting to forget something and not wanting to have that impact your child because you dropped a ball on something or whatever is real. Yeah. So how does the division of labor get decided before it's ever been discussed?

Valerie Recore (12:01)

Mm -hmm.

Mm So if it hasn't been discussed, it tends to fall on mom for a variety of reasons from we'll start with like moms if they are lucky tend to be the ones who get maternity leave. As short or as long you know, we know that that is a problem in this country. But if moms tend to be the ones who are home, dads, if they have it will

Kelly Berry (12:19)

Mm

Valerie Recore (12:40)

We'll take it, it might be a couple of weeks, but they're not going to be home quite as much. So moms are home. They're the ones getting the practice. They're the changing the diapers. They're learning kind of all the cries. This means, you know, my daughter is hungry or diaper change or whatever that is. And they get the practice of that checklist of leaving the house. They get the practice of wrestling a toddler into a car seat. Like they're just the ones who are on this more. We've also been fed this belief that moms are just naturally better caretakers.

which is not true. We just tend to, I think the studies have shown we react just like a hair second quicker than men and so we're just on something quicker and so then men, our partners learn to step back because we do it. Or we might watch our husband changing the diaper and they're kind of struggling with it because they haven't had as much practice and so we just take over it. Let me just do it. I'll just do it. And so over time that shifts to mom just does more.

Dad has stepped back because it just feels easier that way. And without being aware of that, then you're a few years into parenthood and mom has just taken on all of this stuff. The one who goes to the doctors, the one who knows who the doctor is, is registering them for daycare or childcare or preschool or whatever that looks like. They're just the ones that kind of take, just take it all on because we've been told that's what we should be doing.

We tend to have the jobs that pay less. So at times that just sort of makes more sense for mom to be home. And then it just, it carries on from there. So without like concrete conversations talking about who is doing what and why, we then just see that division of labor where mom is doing more of it.

Kelly Berry (14:30)

Mm -hmm. So how does it show up in, whether it's just, I know you started by talking about just how busy moms are and how tired they are, but how does it show up in your relationship with your spouse or your partner or whatever? What are the symptoms that it's unbalanced or unfair, we'll use that word, in your household?

Valerie Recore (14:52)

Mm -hmm. Yeah. When you as a mom start to feel resentful and frustrated, you're wondering why your partner doesn't see all of this stuff, doesn't understand why you're so frustrated or angry. Like when you snip at your husband or you snip at your kids and he's like, what are you so mad about? It is most likely because you are exhausted and resentful and angry that you were doing everything. And it's coming out in this other

way. And maybe you're feeling like you just don't understand why your husband doesn't notice. Why does my partner not notice I'm doing all of these things? Maybe there are conversations around, you know, well, like somebody saying that your standards are too high. So why do we always have to clean the house before guests come over? Why do we always need this or that to look this way? And

we as women just feel like we are being held to these very high standards and nobody else understands it. And if we don't do it, somebody is going to judge us. They're going to come over and tell us, you know, be secretly judging us that our house is a mess, even though we have kids who live in our house and our house is just going to be a mess. Okay. We just can't, we don't need these perfect houses. but that the resentment and the anger and the just constant exhaustion are really

big symptoms and kind of signs that things are feeling off.

Kelly Berry (16:22)

Okay, so if people are feeling that way, which I imagine that a lot of them are, what are some things that you can do to introduce the topic with your partner or, you know, even I know a lot of what you talk to women about are like tools that they can use and ways they can take control of their time or feel more productive. So,

How do you know where to start? Like, is this a conversation that you need to have with your partner or is this something you kind of need to like get control of on your own and then maybe approach your partner? Like, what does that look like?

Valerie Recore (16:57)

Yeah, so either one is really the right answer. I think taking the first step to understand and address some of that resentment so you don't go into that first conversation with your husband or your partner just wanting to spew a bunch of anger at them. So addressing that resentment, understanding that there is a solution to this and it's not you going on strike or threatening to throw out all of their clothes.

or kind of all of these things that we might feel are the answer or have even possibly tried before, but just understanding that there is a solution and that we can get there and that we don't have to be doing everything that society tells us that we need to do. So just that first kind of exhale of, okay, we can work through this together. There is a documentary on Fair Play and I'll get into what

Fair Play Method is in a few minutes, but there's this great documentary that really explains the situation moms are feeling, that mental load, the invisible work that moms do, and really just brings it out in the open in this beautiful way. And that can be a great introduction to talking about it with your partner. mean, even my husband and I watched it together.

We talk about this stuff a lot and we still both learned things watching it. Like I would pause it every now and then be like, I had no idea of that statistic. like, it was just really helpful because it just lays out the situation in a really nice way. And it's not you explaining to your partner, like I am angry about all of this stuff. It is, let's watch this documentary that explains how a lot of women are feeling and then talk about a way to get into it.

Kelly Berry (18:36)

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (18:46)

I have a workbook or a playbook for moms to just have some ideas on how to start that conversation. Something like I've heard of this new way that helps us manage household and childcare tasks in a way that's equal, that creates equity for both of us. It's this new system. Would you be open to talking about it? And like your first conversation is really just, you're not diving into

The solution, you're talking about the fact that there is a solution. Are you willing to try this? Here is how I am feeling. And would you be open to having this conversation about this new thing? So I think it can help to bring your partner in early on. And then we can work together to kind of do all of this to implement a solution that works for both of you. And we can also take a step for mom to just look at how she is spending her time.

And if that makes sense in the, client by client situation, I'd say. Yeah.

Kelly Berry (19:43)

Mm

Yeah. So, and if you want to go ahead and get into the fair play method, we can do that. Or I don't know if this question is appropriate now, but like, what if you ask your partner if they're interested in hearing about it they are like, no, you know, I, I think things are great. Like you do all these things. You're really good at them. I'm, I'm busy also, you know, I think that's a lot of excuse. also you'd probably know better than me, but probably like the burden that women carry specifically if you.

Valerie Recore (20:03)

Mm

Kelly Berry (20:16)

work from home or you are a stay at home mom and your husband maybe goes to an office or has a business or what would be considered a bigger career than you. This is just your contribution to the family. And so then they're not interested because their contribution is providing. You know what I mean? So what does it look like when they're not open to it?

Valerie Recore (20:31)

Mm

bread winning.

Depending on how not open to it, are. Couples counseling might be the next phase for both of you. Because I think we can, there are couples out there who do fall into that trap of, well, I am the breadwinner and you stay home. So I get to come home from work and put my feet up and I don't need to do anything else. However, the only one of the reasons you get to go as the person who

Kelly Berry (20:50)

Mm

Valerie Recore (21:08)

who is the breadwinner and do all of this stuff is because you have somebody at home doing all of the things. And the person at home, or even if you as mom work full -time outside of the home and come home, it still tends to fall on you. But the work of taking care of kids and taking care of a house is endless. There will always be dishes and laundry and something that needs to happen.

Kelly Berry (21:21)

Mm

Valerie Recore (21:33)

And you don't get sick leave and you don't get paid leave and you don't get a vacation really. And without a lot of effort into planning that. And so everybody lives here. We need to contribute. So it's not, my kids are not helping mom or helping dad. It's we all live here. We contribute to the functioning of this household. And

Kelly Berry (21:42)

Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (21:55)

We all need to pitch in to make that happen. So we would all love somebody to just manage all this stuff for us. And if that works for you and your household and that is the way you want to then that's fine. But if it isn't, if it doesn't feel right to you, then it is figuring out how do we make work for both of us. And it doesn't mean you're going to split everything 50 -50. You're going to split things in a way that feels fair.

Kelly Berry (22:16)

Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (22:23)

for you and your family in this situation, because it might change six months from now. As my kids have gotten older, they start to do more around the house. My nine -year -old is now emptying the dishwasher by herself versus doing it with a parent. And we are working with her this year on noticing that the dishwasher needs to be emptied versus me constantly reminding her. We're not there yet, but we're working on it. We'll get there.

Kelly Berry (22:28)

Mm

Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (22:51)

And so it's really like if your partner is not open to it, then counseling might be your first step. If your partner is open to it, then working a certified Fair Play facilitator like me is possibly the next step to kind of help help you work through some of it, but just kind of you're not quite as stuck as you might be.

Kelly Berry (22:57)

Mm

Mm

yeah. So I'm a big fan of bringing in experts or bringing in help because I think it helps you speed, like helps you get it done faster. It helps you figure out, avoid mistakes and all of those things. So tell us about what the Fair Play method is and how it fits into everything that you're talking about.

Valerie Recore (23:22)

here.

Yeah. So the Fair Play method is a tool or a method that helps families work together to kind of equitably share all of the household tasks and childcare tasks. Now you can do this method with roommates. you don't have kids, if you are co -parenting, it can be especially helpful because then you are communicating, you're not duplicating school forms and things like that that might need that happen.

so you get into what are the tasks we need to do as a household and not just dishes and laundry and cleaning. We're also getting into what do our holidays look like? What do birthdays look like? Who's managing the relationships with extended family? And you're getting into all of these conversations around, the two acronyms, which are CPE, which is conception planning and execution.

So that is like the trash, right? is the conception is in the planning pieces are the when is trash day? When do the barrels need to be rolled out to the street? Who's who? How do we keep track of trash bags? What are all of the steps? It's more than just taking out the trash. It's how many, how many trash cans around the house do we have to empty and how often are they emptied? So in our household for a while, we would just, one of us would get to the trash when it started to overflow.

And then occasionally somebody would check if all of the other trash cans in the house were empty. And now it is once a week. One of us is in charge. All of the trash cans are emptied, whether they need to be emptied or not. And then the barrel is taken out and one person is in charge of that. and then we, that person is also responsible for checking on the state of trash bags. Are they put back in the bins that need them? And do we have enough for the next few weeks?

But then you're also talking about what do we want birthday parties to look like? What are our values as a family around birthday parties? Do we throw big elaborate birthday parties where we invite everybody we know? Are they small, more intimate affairs? Are they just family? And why? Why are we doing that? We have friends who throw big elaborate birthday parties for their kids because that is important to them, that they enjoy that. I would rather have the grandparents over for dinner and a small

family birthday party and then maybe the kids invite a couple kids over for a movie night or a sleepover and something a little bit smaller. And maybe occasionally a bigger birthday party. I don't want to throw one every year. That's huge. So really figuring out why. I've had friends who used to throw big elaborate birthdays and then their kids made some comment on like one year they had a smaller one and the kid loved it. It's like, why have I been throwing these big?

Kelly Berry (26:04)

Mm

Valerie Recore (26:18)

elaborate birthday parties, we get into this because we feel we need to. And so the biggest piece of all of that is really your values getting into what is it do we value as a family? That's one of the first steps in fair play is really like, what do we want our life to look like, and feel like and what are our values as a family so that we can feed all of that into the other all of the tasks. So maybe

Kelly Berry (26:21)

Mm

Valerie Recore (26:44)

Trash doesn't feel like it's going to fit into a family value, but you want a clean kitchen. You don't want bugs in your kitchen. You want to be able to make dinner easily and not have trash overflowing. And so your trash is emptied on a regular basis. And the other acronym is the minimum standard of care. And this is a really important one and can be really tricky to have these conversations. And this is this is

kind of the agreed upon standards of how something is done. What is a complete task look like? So another example is our dishes. So in my household, my husband and I split dishes where Sunday through Saturday, one of us is fully in charge of dishes. Emptying the dishwasher, working with my daughter to do it, loading the dishwasher, hand washing dishes that need to be hand washed.

and just kind of keeping on top of the cleanliness of the kitchen. And our minimum standard of care is that by the end of the night, the kitchen needs to be clean enough that whoever is making breakfast does not have to clean the kitchen first. So there might still be dishes on the counter. There might be some things that need to be hand washed, but there's room for somebody to make breakfast without having to show a bunch of dishes aside or load the dishwasher.

Kelly Berry (28:02)

Mm

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (28:06)

And then on Sunday, whoever takes over is left with a fresh start. We're not left with a pile of dishes. So there have been times where one of us is still doing dishes Sunday morning to kind of catch up from the week and get that kind of fresh slate to that person. Now in other households, that might look different. You might want to change that off every day, but you're going to have those conversations. This is what made sense for us. And then we continue to talk about it.

Kelly Berry (28:13)

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (28:33)

Does this make sense? Is this working? We've layered on things like the trash. If you're in charge of dishes, you are also in charge of trash at the end of the week, taking out the recycling. And so we just know that it's being taken care of. So you're having those conversations and then you're having regular check -ins around all of that stuff to talk about the schedule for the week. How are the tasks working?

Kelly Berry (28:46)

Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (28:57)

how they're being taken care of and does that make sense? And not one person is in charge of something forever and ever unless that makes sense for you. So I don't mind doing the laundry. I will be in charge of doing the laundry regularly. Most other tasks that are kind of the daily grind tasks, you don't want one person to be in charge. You kind of trade off who does them.

Kelly Berry (29:03)

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. Yeah. So how long have you all been doing this in your household?

Valerie Recore (29:22)

Yeah, a couple years at this point, yeah.

Kelly Berry (29:24)

Yeah. And what, how different does it feel now than it did before you started?

Valerie Recore (29:31)

Yeah. So the story that I like to share about starting most, we started with a dishwasher. I talk about dishes because it's sort of, we all understand. We always have dishes in the kitchen, right? So I talk about how, before we started talking about the dishes using Fairplay is I, this would have been during the pandemic. We're all home. My husband and I both work from home.

But my job is pretty flexible. work for myself and I would constantly feel like the dishes were calling to me. I'd go into the kitchen to get some water, a snack. Like the kitchen would be a mess. I'm like, my God, I'm so sick of emptying the dishwasher and dealing with this. And I finally had a conversation with my husband. was like, look, feel like the dishes are taunting me every time I come into the kitchen. I'm tired of this. Why does it always feel like it's my responsibility to take care of it? And he...

His response was like, I don't expect you to take care of it. I figure we'll get to it at some point. And that was the problem was that like at some point, like what is that at some point, at some point somebody has to deal with the dishes. And so being able to split it this way meant if it's not my week, I don't have to think about it. It is not my responsibility. and if it is my week, then I can tackle it when it makes sense for me versus feeling

Kelly Berry (30:48)

Mm

Valerie Recore (30:49)

frustrated about it. And so there's just this sense of relief of this is not on my brain right now. I don't need to worry about this task. My husband has recently taken over more of our cat care, if you will. So he's mostly been in charge of their litter box for years. One of my kids feeds them every night, but I've always been the one in charge of taking them to their appointments. And he recently kind of

Kelly Berry (30:58)

Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (31:16)

took over that task. So it's not my responsibility anymore. And so that I don't have to think about it. It's not, I don't have to remember if they're due for an appointment and make that appointment and then figure like, am I going to take them or you going to take them? Where are the kids in this situation? And it's just not my responsibility. You're still going to talk about all this stuff together, right? Like we're still going to have a regular check in, hey, the cats are due for their appointment this week. Are you around to hang out with the kids or?

Kelly Berry (31:17)

Mm

Mm -hmm.

Mm

Valerie Recore (31:44)

maybe the kids are in school and that piece doesn't need to be discussed. Or can you help me on this day, like get the cats into their cat carriers because they like to run and hide because they don't want to get in there. So to really having those conversations continually, that's one of the other biggest pieces besides talking about your values is the regular check -in. What is working?

Kelly Berry (31:57)

Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (32:08)

what needs to be tweaked. That's how we started with the dishes and then added on some of the other stuff that did the trash and recycling. And what can, so what can we layer on? And then just the general, like what is going on in our life this week or the next few weeks and having those conversations so you're all together on top

Kelly Berry (32:22)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Yeah, There's a lot of things that you just said I want to like touch on because there's just a lot to unpack in there. But the first one I think is like deciding what kind of celebrations you're going to have, what kind of birthday parties you want to have. Because I think that this is, and I mentioned this to you, you know, I live in South Florida. There are kids birthday parties here that are

like weddings. is absolutely absurd and, know, absurd, that's my opinion, but, you know, I don't, I don't place that much value on a seven year old's birthday party. birthdays are important to me and there are ways that, you know, I like to do that. And my husband and I have had conversations about it because he kind of grew up in a way where birthdays weren't that big of a deal. And I grew up in a way where birthdays were a big deal, not in the throw your

child and wedding sized birthday party, you know, there were parties and celebrations. And so we've kind of established like what's important to us there. But you know, what I think happens a lot is not only do couples or co -parents or whatever the situation is, not only do they have like different values about it, but like the social pressure that you feel from how other kids are having birthday parties or

you know, your neighbors are doing for their kids. Like, how does that play into the method in like wrapping your arms around what you are or aren't willing to do?

Valerie Recore (34:04)

Mm -hmm. Yeah, I think that's a huge piece of it. I think there's so much social pressure out there for us to do things in a certain way. We feel we're gonna be judged. We feel like, I have to make this Instagram worthy so I can share the pictures so that everybody knows how fabulous this is. And I think that's a big part of just kind of that inner work of all of this, that getting to that life you want to be living is how do I separate?

what I want from what society is telling me. And I'm not saying this is going to be easy. I fall into this trap regularly of, well, I didn't do things like this person did. And does that make me a bad mom? like we all, you know, I'm still fighting this and probably will be. you come back to your values? What is it we value? What does celebrating our kids and birthdays and each other look like?

Kelly Berry (34:44)

Mm

Valerie Recore (34:56)

what is important to us in that way, and practicing that letting go of what society expects. I kind of look at it in the, like what if everybody you know or a few people you know are also in the situation of I do not want to be throwing these giant birthdays, they're putting me in debt, they are stressing me out, I do not enjoy this, but I don't feel like I can stop because everybody else does it. So what if one person

changes that and then everything else kind of calms down because other folks are like okay I don't have to go overboard this family did it differently and the world is still spinning so maybe I will try it this way and sort of being that catalyst for change in the I just don't want to do it this way or maybe like we're just going to try it this year and see what happens maybe next year we're going to throw a bigger birthday party and do that because we

Kelly Berry (35:35)

Mm

Mm

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (35:52)

because that feels better. But I do sometimes wonder, like I was talking to somebody whose kid did, played soccer and she did it because all of the other kids, her son's age were also on their block were also playing soccer. So she kind of felt like, well, my kid isn't going to hang out with these kids otherwise. So I want to play soccer. But what if every other parent or half of the parents on this street feel the same way and you're all signing your kids up for this thing that

Kelly Berry (35:54)

Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (36:21)

Nobody really wants to do, but you're scared of what's going to happen if you take that step back. And none of it has to be permanent, right? You do it one year and it doesn't feel right, then you can switch it up again the next year. You can skip a season of soccer and it will hopefully be okay. It'll probably be okay. Get back in there the next season. But we feel so much pressure to do things a certain way. And I just...

Kelly Berry (36:27)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Mm

Valerie Recore (36:49)

I think there are probably other families out there who feel that pressure too and don't want to do it but don't know how to take that first step.

Kelly Berry (36:56)

Yeah, yeah. And you know, I don't want to seem like I'm bashing on big extravagant birthday parties because you you even said, you know, make sure that what you're doing is true to your values. So if that's, if that truly is what you love and what you want to do and you know, I see this, I think like with holiday parties, you know, people do big extravagant holiday parties, but they, they love it. Like it's what they want to be doing. It's how they want to be spending their time. And you know, I think that's great, but I think, you know, what I wanted to speak to was just

Valerie Recore (37:02)

Thank

Kelly Berry (37:26)

not falling into the trap that because that's what other people are doing that you have to do it the same way. Yeah. So I just wanted to add that in. don't, you know, part of what my whole podcast is about is helping people figure out like what's true to them so that they can act on that. And if that is true to you, then great. It's just good to take an audit of is that true to you or is that, is there some, something underlying that's causing you to do things like that, that you really just don't enjoy.

Valerie Recore (37:55)

Yeah.

Kelly Berry (37:56)

Yeah another thing that you were talking about two things actually that I really liked were standard of care is that what you called it?

Valerie Recore (38:05)

The minimum standard of care.

Kelly Berry (38:07)

Yeah, the standard of care, because I think, I love that, because I think that that eliminates the ambiguity of like, what's good enough, or what does cleaning the kitchen look like, or what is doing the laundry look like, or what does, you know, name any other thing that is on this list. So how do...

How does that play in or how do you figure out what that is? You just kind of like have a discussion about it or what does that look like?

Valerie Recore (38:31)

Yeah, it's going to be part of your, it's going to be a discussion and it is not a time for one person to raise their standards until the other person they need to raise their standards. It's not, we're not fighting over lowering their standards. You're agreeing upon standards and there are questions you can ask, like what would a reasonable person in our situation do? What is this, like what are our neighbors doing? What are our family members doing? How would they do this?

of what makes sense for our family in this situation. is not, we're not battling it out over, well, I need things done this certain way and you need to just like get on board. It is a conversation and that can be tricky. So maybe you start with something that feels kind of easier that you can agree upon. It might be talking about the why behind it. So things like,

The drawer in our kitchen where our kitchen towels go, towels need to be kind of folded a certain way to fit in this drawer. So we're gonna talk about, it's not why I don't want them necessarily folded this way from my own standard, but to fit in this drawer, they need to be done this way. In other, you know, like our, where we fold our bath towels, as long as they're folded and in a pile that isn't gonna come falling out when I open the door.

Maybe it doesn't matter how it's folded as long as the chore is done or the task is done. And you're going to talk about why. Like my husband and I fold bath towels differently. And that is okay. It doesn't mean one is more right than the other one. It just means we learned differently. And so how do we fold them so that they just don't come falling out of the closet? And this conversation can get tricky, certainly. And so kind of

knowing that you want to be on the same page. We want to fight against the dishes, not about the dishes. I loading the dishwasher is a thing that people can argue over. We could probably spend a whole podcast talking about that of like the correct way to load them, right? But if somebody else loads the dishwasher and it's a task you don't have to worry about, like, can we just take a minute and like let that go versus sneaking in behind them and redoing it? I've had a friend tell me that he was going to stop emptying

Kelly Berry (40:29)

Mm

Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (40:47)

the dishwasher or loading the dishwasher altogether because his wife was giving him such a hard time about how to do it. And so it's sort of that like come to an agreement on how it's done or one of you is going to end up doing all the work because the other person quit and all this like bigger ramifications in your relationship.

Kelly Berry (41:02)

Yeah.

Yeah, And I think the last thing any of us want to do is go through the trouble to have these conversations, know, divide these chores in a way that we think feels equitable and then go around behind somebody and feel like you have to redo it all because you missed this step of the conversation or you maybe agreed upon it, but in your heart, like what you said was okay is not really okay. And I think, you know, that's just a good...

Valerie Recore (41:24)

Mm

Kelly Berry (41:34)

a good thing for people to be aware of. And I think that's also like maybe a good first really simple step to like start getting into some things. Like if you already have kind of this unspoken code that, you know, all the kids toys get picked up at night. Like maybe you can pick that and start talking about what does that really mean? Like does everything just need to be picked up? Does everything need to go back where it belongs? Like, does it just need to be off the floor so we can run the Roomba? Like, what does this look like? yeah, that could be just like a really good

entry point.

Valerie Recore (42:04)

Yeah, absolutely. And they're ongoing conversations. Like you're not going to have one conversation about toys being picked up and then never have to talk about it again. Unfortunately, it is something, this is a game played for life, if you will. And so it's constantly having these conversations, which will hopefully get easier over time. Right? It's just a quick check in, Hey, we have fallen off the path of like, you know, Hey, I realized this fall that I did way too much getting ready for schoolwork or tasks. How can we?

Kelly Berry (42:06)

Yeah.

Mm

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (42:34)

change this going So just having and getting it like with the toys, like once a week, you're going to have a check and hey, how did it go this week? What is working? What is not? How are we going to make this happen? It's an ongoing conversation.

Kelly Berry (42:35)

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. So one other thing that you mentioned earlier, and I've heard Eve Rotsky on another podcast and she's the creator of the Fair Play Method talking about some of these responsibilities or like the mental load that women or moms carry that, you know, are just outside of what I think people think of like cleaning and dishes and laundry and all the kids stuff. And you mentioned, you know, who's going to manage

relationships with extended family. I think in the episode that I was listening to, Eve mentioned gift buying, like who's going to send the birthday cards, who's going to buy the birthday gifts. So I love that these things are also part of the system. What are some other things that are like kind of in those categories outside of what people would probably just think of when they're thinking about the division of labor?

Valerie Recore (43:44)

Yeah. So there are things like who is teaching the kids all their big life skills. are like all, you know, we're talking about puberty or we're talking potty training. Like what are all of the life skills that kids need? Who is teaching the kids those and what are they? What are the values that we want to instill in our kids? What does that look like? Creating magic for families. what

kind of getting into the holidays and birthdays. What is, how are we doing? What do our holidays look like? Are we doing the elf on the shelf? Are we doing some of this stuff? And hopefully your kids aren't listening and I'm not ruining anything here. No, the tooth fairy, like who, who is calling the tooth fairy when somebody, you know, what does this look like? What is the magic we're creating for our kids? Who's planning vacations?

Kelly Berry (44:23)

Mute warning or something. Yeah.

Valerie Recore (44:37)

whether you have kids or not, who's planning those vacations, who's in charge of that? I mean, there's so many, if you're moving, who's in charge of the move? What does that look like? Who's doing all the documents for a new mortgage? Like, how are you, who's boxing stuff up and calling the moving company and managing all of it? There's a lot of steps involved. So just about anything in your life that needs to be managed could probably...

be run through some of the Fair Play method into some way to have those conversations. Not all of them are like, and thank you for bringing Eve's name into this. Like she divided all of these, I think there's like a hundred tasks that she started with. And certainly you don't need all of them. A fair amount of them are for parents, but there's also some like wild cards. What happens with if there's an illness in the family, small or big.

Kelly Berry (45:06)

Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (45:29)

If you're taking care of aging parents, like what does that look like? Who's in charge of managing those relationships and all of that? What happens if there's a glitch in the system? This is another one of like, if a kid is homesick, you have a flat tire, it's a snow day. Like you may have a perfectly planned week, but inevitably something is going to throw it, throw it off. Right. So then what happens? Who's in charge? And having, being able to check in with your partner of

Kelly Berry (45:49)

Mm

Valerie Recore (45:56)

Okay, like my husband and I both work from home. So if we have a sick kid, it's like, okay, well I have this meeting today. I cannot rearrange it, but I can cancel this one. Can you cover and kind of hang out and check on her while I'm on this call and then I'll be around to take care of her this afternoon. Or can you make sure she eats lunch or whatever? Like you're going to have those conversations because life is going to throw you curveballs and you have to be able to communicate that.

Kelly Berry (46:17)

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (46:22)

and work through those. So yeah, you've got your dishes covered and you've got your snow days covered.

Kelly Berry (46:27)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great. I think that that's just worth mentioning because that's probably more of those unspoken expectations or just things people don't really think about in the context of this system or this conversation if they're not familiar with it. But they are things that have to be done, have to be thought about, have to, they are weighing on, I know that those types of things weigh on my mind all the time. So it's good that those are

Valerie Recore (46:53)

Mm

Kelly Berry (46:57)

Those are things to have conversations about. And even if nothing else, that there's awareness that when this thing comes up, like we're going to have to talk about who's responsible for what and when. Yeah. I think that's probably another good point that you don't have to like map it all out and figure everything out upfront, but just to be aware of the things that are going to arise to cause you to have conversation about them. So what else?

Valerie Recore (47:08)

Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yep, absolutely.

Kelly Berry (47:24)

I think this has been really good, but what else do you help people with or what kind of tools or how can they find you?

Valerie Recore (47:34)

Yeah. So you can find me at strideproductivity .com and that's where everything is kind of up to date as to my latest program offerings, signing up for my newsletter or just a quick phone call with me to check in and really. Yes. Like the biggest thing for me is spending that time evaluating or identifying your values and then figuring out what in your life fits into that.

And I work with moms and I'm starting to work with couples and implementing the fair play method in their house and just getting started on this path of making sure kind of sharing that mental load with your partner. So it's not all on you as a mom.

Kelly Berry (48:14)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah. I know you started by talking about some books, but do you have any like book recommendations or tools that you think are really helpful for people who are maybe in like either a time management crunch or like a crisis of resentment?

Valerie Recore (48:32)

You

Yeah. I mean, I think the Fair Play Method book itself, there's a deck of cards. I think Ivaradzki really just explains the situation very well and then walks you through the steps of how to make that happen. And then working with somebody who is familiar with it, like me, can kind of help you tweak it so that it makes sense for your situation. I think there's, we can get caught up in, need to follow this method exactly versus

Kelly Berry (48:58)

Mm

Valerie Recore (49:05)

I need to make this work for my household. Like my husband and I do not do all of the cards all of the time. We pick the big ones that we need and then I don't think we've really ever talked about the minimum standard of care for what bathrooms are cleaned, how they're cleaned, what clean looks like. We both just kind of make it happen when it needs. We talk about bathrooms need to be clean this weekend and one of us tackles it because it's not a big deal for us. So it's really figuring out what

Kelly Berry (49:08)

Mm

Mm -hmm.

Valerie Recore (49:34)

where the sticky points are and having those conversations around those sticky points and then layering on from there.

Kelly Berry (49:37)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, awesome. And I know you mentioned your resource earlier about how to initiate a conversation with your partner about this. But I'll link to that in the show notes, as well as your website, social media, so that anybody who is interested can find you, follow you, or reach out and have a conversation with you.

Valerie Recore (49:49)

Mm

Yeah, perfect. Thank you.

Kelly Berry (50:05)

Yeah, this has been great. And like I mentioned, I think this is something so helpful, so widely needed. And just the awareness about it, I think is a big step forward for a lot of people. Because I talk to people all the time who are both busy and exhausted.

Valerie Recore (50:24)

You

Kelly Berry (50:25)

So thank you so much and we'll talk later.

Valerie Recore (50:27)

All right, thank you.